The Cult of Columbine

[TeQuila]

Very good article, I thought.

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/04/26/1082831495882.html

This is a very sensitive issue, so please try to be objective when discussing it.

Obviously, the murders perpetrated at columbine high school were absolutely shocking. No one who has seen bowling for columbine - no matter what you think of michael moore - can say that they didn't feel affected watching the video footage of what went down.

However, can the way the American school system is structured be also partly to blame for this awful tragedy? Or does the sole responsibility for the massacre lie at the feet of the two lads who committed it?

Have a look at the article above, and let me know what you think.

[black fair]

do I really have to read the article, or can I just respond with whatever random thing comes to mind regardless of whether it is contradictory to stated facts?

[TeQuila]

do I really have to read the article, or can I just respond with whatever random thing comes to mind regardless of whether it is contradictory to stated facts?

Whatever makes you happy :P

[[BiP]-B4]

I don't think its strictly the school system's fault, more the disillusionment of youth. Youngsters have so much power, from hate, alienation, whatever but they have no way to release it. In the good old days kids were taught to deal with their sh*t or identify with a role model but in today's vapid society where they're betrayed at every turn and the only role models are fags that host tv shows telling people how to change, kids will embrace anything that resembles a direction. The cause is not
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but all of these things together. In the end, one can never hope to control the symptoms or contributing factors but help kids develop the emotional tools they need to cope with it. There is no cause and there is no solution. But as human beings we have a responsibility to raise kids to have the strength to overcome.

[Lan0s]

Reading that earlier today I was quite appaled. I'm not going to single out anyone or anything in particular but it's just disgraceful. How can anyone condone, let alone openly support the planned out, vicious, cold-blooded murders of the Columbine shooters? Do they not realise that these people are evil murders and not martyrs? If they are regarded as martyrs, what are they martyrs of? Certainly not any religion, faith or any respectable belief that I know of. Some may argue that they are representing the "freaks" of high school, fighting against the bullying jocks. Yet it was them that killed an innocent girl who had not done them any harm. They asked her if she believed in God, and when she replied "yes" they shot her in the head. Quite frankly, I don't know what is do be done, but those two are just disgraceful and should not be regarded as heroes or martyrs in anyone's books.

[iDuck]

We think alike TeQ, i was about to post this as a topic as well.

It's not something you can boil down into issues of black and white (although most conservatives would sure like to).

I'd like to say "stupid america", and I will - stupid america - but it's not something simply isolated to that part of the world. We've all seen examples of the isolation that's forced upon some people (in society, school, etc) - but it's the way people have been conditioned to deal with this isolation that differs. I guess in Australia we don't have a cult of gun-crazed violence, which they do in the US - is that the reason these kids see their "only way out" is through a gun? And we don't have an all-encompassing "jocks/popular/dorks/geek" culture here to the extent that the US does. Does this just accentuate the isolation those kids feel? Does that, coupled with a "guns are the answer" solution to everything that the US seems to be so fond of, result in these school shootings?

Funny thing is, your ultra-right wing NRA came out and said - immediatelt after the Columbine massacre - that "none of this would have happened if there was just one armed guard in the school". Yeah. Solution to guns and violence? More guns. Am I the only one who can look at a statement like that and shake my head in wonder?

I'll try and source that quote, because it does sound too ridiculous to be true, but I can assure you it was said... if I can find a weblink I'll be back with it, and you, too, can shake your head and wonder - like iDuck - "Why is America so weird? And where are my pants?"

[black fair]

yeah I'd agree with iDuck and blame American culture. I don't think we have the problem here because we simply aren't so anal. you would presume that those guys that did the massacre would've had to have gone through a lot of **** to snap like that, which makes me wonder how much **** can you really cop at school? I mean, there were people at school that I had problems with, and if I ran into them there usually were, but its not like I would seek them out, and certainly if you don't want to be hassled at school there must be places you can go?

maybe its the sheer size of the schools, I attended a bunch of different primary and high schools, and they were pretty big and spread out, so that combined with school not really lasting that long, how can it really be that bad?

in the end I chalk this sort of occurence down simply to mentally disturbed people having access to guns. which really, is most of america.

[Lan0s]

The article also states that the parents had a large role in the social classes (as opposed to social groups in Australia) and they actively push their kids to be in the "cool group." What ****ing ****head parents!

Also would want to state that no matter how far these kids are "pushed" they shouldn't plot to maliciously murder their peers. This wasn't a spur of the moment thing where they just "snapped" and killed people, it was plotted over a period of time to the smallest detail. No one should pity these two as they are twice as bad as the people that bullied them.

[CornHolio]

yep, all valid points and definately contributed to what happened, especially the fact that these guys have access to guns.
A large portion of the blame has to lie at the killers' feet as well. There are millions of kids in America that are subject to the same culture but wouldnt even give a thought to doing what these two have done. There had to be some sort of psychiatric issues involved for the killers to have responded so severely to the culture, and they need to take some responsibility for that. Surely the killers would have thought at some stage that what they were doing was just plain wrong, but they proceeded anyway.

[revirs]

Originally posted by iDuck
I'd like to say "stupid america", and I will - stupid america
i think the pc term would be 'mis-informed american public' micheal moore writes about this in his last book 'Dude, Where's My Country?'

From the article - Mellissa Andersen
"The reason I believe Eric and Dylan were really cool to do what they did is because they stood up for themselves. every single day they were teased, and I can relate to that."

would this girl go out and shoot people tho?

ill have to add more later :( gotta sleep now

[Titan]

the USA runs on three things:

"Dollar Bills", "Popcorn" and "Pizza".

Eliminate the dollar bills, and you don't have the tipping system and hence a minimum wage.

Eliminate popcorn culture and you won't have all the kids thinking that what happens in movies is ok.

Eliminate the pizza culture and you won't have so many fat ****s running around.

They are a product of society and their parents fair and square.

[chriz]

i think it's mainly access to guns + american culture

they probably saw guns as a way to escape whatever they were going through.
i think alot of the blame belongs on the parents. you should need a degree to have a child. and if the parents fail in teaching them life, who do they have to turn to? teachers?

which brings me to another point..a good teacher is priceless. they should be paid alot more.

teachers can shape and change kids lives. and the good ones will raise the kid and teach em values and many other things besides the curriculum. they teach them in life.
lets face it, there are lots of sh*t parents out there.

[revirs]

you cant blame a single party. its more complex than that.

The problem is that in life. there is no silver bullet, no quick and easy solution.
The only solution i have is the principal of how the solution should be applied.

You need to look at many of the possibilities. offer a multi-pronged solution and hope that you can make a difference in many cases but not every case.

if this happened then less shootings would occur, but it wouldnt stop.

[Fatso]

I think that the article also alludes to it being an ingrained societal problem, the alienation of these kids is bound to explode in your face sometime, that being said you'd hope that society (parents included) have brought those kids up in a way that resorting to mass violence isn't considered.

I think in Australia our youth suicide issue is partly to blame on similar root causes. Maybe our culture isn't as aggresively social climbing and sucess/failure based so the reaction against tends not to be as aggresive.

I think the matyrdom and hero worshipping of both the victim and the aggressors in the columbine example are really disturbing. It is too easy to say these kids were evil mass murderers without examining the root causes but it is equally simplistic to condone what they did on the basis of some level of empathy.